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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Want to find common names? Don't use the Credit Lookup Tool |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 20, 2007 |  Posts: 78 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
I'm wondering, in the situations you mention, do you think the names have been added without the diacritics because that's how they're actually credited or because the people who did the profile missed them off? Because they are actually credited without diacritics or the Profiler doesn't support them. There are a couple of modern american/czech co-productions (for example "Brothers Grimm") where the names can't be "as credited". The problem with these diacritics is, that they get lost when the english language is used in the credits. It would be very easy to "type what you see on screen". If there are typing mistakes (like John Wane or John Waynne) from time to time it's no problem, use the "credit as..." functionality and common name is John Wayne. But it doesn't work when diacritics are left out regularly. They willl not show up in the database. And in my eyes these are also typing mistakes (due to technical limitations when writing the credits and/or lack of knowledge). Quote:
In theory, the CLT would help in a lot of these situations, but the database is too corrupted with IMDB data for it to work properly. That's another (bigger) problem when looking for the "common name" as the most credited name, and definitely NOT because of nationalism corrupting the database. Quote:
Your posts have shown me that the French caps problem is just the tip of a nasty iceberg, it looks more and more like we need a bigger fix to the naming system than just a clarification of a rule.
I'm wondering - just off the top of my head - would it help or hinder if the program ignored diacritics? So, as an example, François Truffaut and Francois Truffaut were linked by the program (and the CLT) without any need for changing profiles? So, in your example, both Küchner and Kuchner connected (although it wouldn't help with Kuechner). A very good idea. PLUS a rule addition " add diacritics to the common name when you can document them" (not only for the French even when it's justified by the rules at the moment) PLUS UTF-16 or unicode support PLUS a checkbox surname/given name instead of given name/surname (remember?) when you can document it. It will satisfy the needs of a lot of user and perhaps a lot of discussions about names will be unnecessary. This will lead to more accuracy in the database and an unexperienced user can still contribute. In my eyes ignoring the diacritics because in english credits they are ignored doesn't lead to more accuracy and a more consistent database, it's only collecting and managing faults. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting schizzzo: Quote:
A very good idea. PLUS a rule addition "add diacritics to the common name when you can document them" I do not agree with this. If we are going to make it a rule that they are to be added, then it should be added to BOTH fields. The 'common name' field is supposed to reflect the most commonly credited form of the name. We should not be creating 'artificial' entries for it. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | No schizzzo, the iddean is for you to get on ONE page and STOP creating multiple pgaes, That is what I mean by lack of rationality, you don't understand that there has to be ONE page for data entry, not one for French, One for German and so on and your method requires users to have knowledge of your peculiarities relating to diacriticals. Just get on the right page and use the Alias system for your diacriticals, like you should, quit making a MESS. It's obvious that you either can't or won't understand the concept.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
No schizzzo, the iddean is for you to get on ONE page and STOP creating multiple pgaes, That is what I mean by lack of rationality, you don't understand that there has to be ONE page for data entry, not one for French, One for German and so on and your method requires users to have knowledge of your peculiarities relating to diacriticals. Just get on the right page and use the Alias system for your diacriticals, like you should, quit making a MESS. It's obvious that you either can't or won't understand the concept.
Skip How many times does it need to be said before you will understand it? The Alias system is not meant for diacritics or odd name variances. It is meant to record the most credited form of the name. Nothing more, nothing less. Quit trying to bastardize it and turn it into something that it isn't. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,680 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Fine people, just do whatever you want to do and all we will ever have is a MESS. I can't quite understand you concern, Skip. If the credit for FRANCOIS should happen to be entered as François, how does that create the MESS that you're raving about? This is about a few cases where accented characters are sometimes (correctly) represented by unaccented characters when written in upper case, and some of us think it's ok to transpose them back to their original, correctly accented, lower case representation. So, if Truffauts credit for CE3K should read François Truffaut instead of - as you suggest - François Truffaut [Francois Truffaut] (or was it the other way around - I'm a bit confused), how would this corrupt the database beyond salvation?  [Edit] I know Skip thinks it's Ok to insult people in PM's and think that it's immoral to quote his private insults, but I'm going to ignore that and say that Skip's PM response to this was: Not surprised at all that you don't understand.No explanation, just an insult. It truly saddens me that Skip chooses to sink to these kind of personal attacks in response to a perfectly reasonable question. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar | | | | Last edited: by GSyren |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
[Edit]
I know Skip thinks it's Ok to insult people in PM's and think that it's immoral to quote his private insults, but I'm going to ignore that and say that Skip's PM response to this was:
Not surprised at all that you don't understand.
No explanation, just an insult. It truly saddens me that Skip chooses to sink to these kind of personal attacks in response to a perfectly reasonable question. No one understands except Skip. It is a common theme on this forum. There is a way to stop the insulting PMs!  | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,680 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
There is a way to stop the insulting PMs! I know, but fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on how you see it) not all of Skip's PMs are insulting. He does in fact often provide quite valueable input, so I wouldn't want to block all his PMs. | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar | | | | Last edited: by GSyren |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | Selective reading helps: (read what you like, skip what you don't like)  | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr. Killpatient: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
As for uour comments relative to being insulting, I give what I get, you insult me, then you can expect return fire.
That just lowers yourself to the level you perceive the other person is at and as we have seen many, many times over, it doesn't do anything to help and only prolongs the argument.
Just ignore it, it's not worth the frustration. This isn't directed just at Skip. NOTE TO SKIP: Not everyone you see fit to insult has insulted you. The only way you can make that argument is if merely disagreeing with you publicly is insulting you. I have certainly disagreed with you, but I defy you to quote where I have insulted you. (Sorry to hijack your message, Dr., but I'm too lazy to back up to Skip's original quote ) | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
North:
You are ignoring what Ken and Gerri have said
Ken and Gerri have told us that if we can document a "Common Name" is not correct then we can change it accordingly...with the documentation...not just because.
Now because of this, I'll pci what I presume woul;d be an easy one to document.
FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT=Francois Truffaut
But with documenattion to back up François Truffaut as the Alias (Common Name) I would support the Common name based on what ken and gerri have told us, and iwould expect everyone else to as well.
But i would not support
FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT=François Truffaut
[b]I woulld support
FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT=François Truffaut Credited As Francois Truiffaut[/b]
Skip This is utterly insane! I see now what you're trying to do, Skip, (though it took a long time for you to show me despite dozens of PMs and messages here), but really, it's insane. For your view of ON SCREEN to be true it should be FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT=François Truffaut Credited As FRANCOIS TRUFFAUT It doesn't matter how many times you say that Francois is what I see when FRANCOIS is what's on screen, it simply isn't true. What I see on screen is FRANCOIS. Not Francois, not François. I know what you are saying, I now understand what you want to do, but I SIMPLY DON'T AGREE WITH YOU. That doesn't make me wrong and you right just because you say so, either. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I Think Gerri just clarified the rules here http://invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=262159She writes For clarification: Just as with titles, when having to alter cast or crew because they are listed in all capitals, use capitialization rules standard to the language of the cast/crew member's name or nationality. -Gerri |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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