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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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What's the runtime of a season box? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 775 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
I am sorry, but I think you are reaching here. The only time we can create a profile for a bonus disc is when it is part of a box set AND covers all the films in the set.
A TV series set is NOT the same thing as a Movie Box Set. They have different rules and you can not take the rules from one and claim they apply to the other. JMHO. It states quite clearly in the TV child profile rules, Create each of these individual profiles in line with the standard Contribution Rules. And then goes on to state that the only exception is with cover images, although those have been discussed to clarity by now. There's just no other interpretation. I've made or downloaded child profiles for scores of TV sets by this point, and the only time I've come across one that doesn't have a separate profile for a features-only disc is when people HAVE profiled by packaging, such as having a thinpak with two discs occupying a single profile. Although these are generally separated out by various people and you don't really see it being done on new profiles. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | You overlooked one very important, nadja.
"Create each of these individual profiles in line with the standard Contribution Rules."
Under standar dRules we do NOT create Profiles for Bnus Discs.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 775 |
| | Posted: | | | | Read what you're replying to, Skip. You can't have disc-level profiles and then say you're going to ignore box sets, you can't have it both ways. That's not even selective replying, that's replying to something that clearly doesn't apply. And I might point out two things; you're one of the original proponents of child profiles, so going back on it now certainly looks like you're just trying to cause trouble, and above all else, you have created such features-only child profiles in the past! This is the EXACT same argument that came up over the aforementioned 24 box set months ago, why are you going against your actions to start it again? | | | | Last edited: by Nadja |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | There are specific Rules which apply TV to TY series and as Unicus said you are really reaching trying to include Bonus Discs in that setup, especially in view of the the admonition to follow the standard Rules. I iknow what you are doing and saying Nadja, but it's a tretch. The standard Rules say to do things and as this was discussed endlessly at the time, the discussion was about Disc level profiles for Episodes, never ONCE in that discussion was Bonus Discs ever enterde into the discussion by you or anyone else. In view of that discussion the purpose of that line is clear as a bell. If you wanted to Profile bonus discs you should have brought it up and not just go fly off and do it. Consistency would dictate that we then catalog each and every other Bonus disc and we do NOT. Perhaps someday...but someday isn't here...yet.
You seem to be implying an inconsistency on my part, if you bother to check you will find that the 24 Bonus Discs to which you refer are individually cased, which i have also referred to here, and not simply another disc of the set. Discs that are simply a part of the set are not Profiled yet.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 775 |
| | Posted: | | | | Right, I've got a number of questions which I would like you to answer, Skip. That's each and every one, not just the ones you want to blow out of proportion. 1. If we are profiling at disc level, why are they not treated as any other box set children? Something a little more substantial than "that's how I think it is", please, as the rules make no such distinction. 2. IF (and that's a big IF, no offence but your recollections are frequently selective) bonus discs were never entered for discussion, surely there was no ruling against them; why, then, would they NOT be allowed? The rule states "individual profiles for each disc may be submitted if desired", no exception for or against bonus-only discs is given. 3. You've claimed multiple times that a bonus-only disc in a thinpak DOES deserve a profile.Once again, what does " individually cased" have to do with anything? As I said above, packaging affects exactly two things; case type field, and cover scans. Can you show me any rules or even precedent that proves packaging trumps content? 4. How do you account for the fact that pretty much all TV sets that have child profiles include a profile for a bonus-only disc where one is included? Have you ever attempted to have any of these deleted? Which rules did/would you quote to support this? 5. Again, why are you bringing up the same old argument at all, especially in a thread that had no call for it? I see last time you failed to genuinely counter my points. CLAIMING I was wrong, but rather than saying why, preferring instead to take a break for some thinking time, then simply fall back on the old "you're not intelligent enough" standard when this didn't come about.* Do please answer ALL of these. This is at least the second time this has come up, it would be marvellous if it would be the last. *line breaks here for the hyperlinks, not dramatic effect. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,745 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting eagle61397: Quote:
Here is a cool tool for adding time. I wish I had this when I had to work on my back-timing (went to school for broadcasting). Thx, but I carved me a simple yet effective tool that supports my lazyness. It accepts ":", "," and "." as time seperator but interprets them as ":". That means I can enter all times on the number pad and 24.4 translates into 24m 04s, 1.2.3 into 01h 02m 03s. | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
 | | | | Last edited: by DJ Doena |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Nadja: Quote:
Right, I've got a number of questions which I would like you to answer, Skip. That's each and every one, not just the ones you want to blow out of proportion.
1. If we are profiling at disc level, why are they not treated as any other box set children? Something a little more substantial than "that's how I think it is", please, as the rules make no such distinction.
2. IF (and that's a big IF, no offence but your recollections are frequently selective) bonus discs were never entered for discussion, surely there was no ruling against them; why, then, would they NOT be allowed? The rule states "individual profiles for each disc may be submitted if desired", no exception for or against bonus-only discs is given.
3. You've claimed multiple times that a bonus-only disc in a thinpak DOES deserve a profile.Once again, what does "individually cased" have to do with anything? As I said above, packaging affects exactly two things; case type field, and cover scans. Can you show me any rules or even precedent that proves packaging trumps content?
4. How do you account for the fact that pretty much all TV sets that have child profiles include a profile for a bonus-only disc where one is included? Have you ever attempted to have any of these deleted? Which rules did/would you quote to support this?
5. Again, why are you bringing up the same old argument at all, especially in a thread that had no call for it?
I see last time you failed to genuinely counter my points.
CLAIMING I was wrong, but rather than saying why, preferring instead to take a break for some thinking time, then simply fall back on the old "you're not intelligent enough" standard when this didn't come about.*
Do please answer ALL of these. This is at least the second time this has come up, it would be marvellous if it would be the last.
*line breaks here for the hyperlinks, not dramatic effect. 1) i have already answered this in some detail. The Rules say: "Create each of these individual profiles in line with the standard Contribution Rules." Standard Rules do not Profile Bonus discs, save for those oddities that have their own case. See Indy. I have checked bot the my own Profiles on 24 and the World Profiles in 24 and it appears that most of them, except for one that appears to originate in Brazil, follow the standarads. Season 1-3 Bonus Discs were simply part of the set and the Disc ID for the Bonus Disc is attacahed to the parent. Just as with 98% of ALL Bonus Discs. SAeason 4 began the use of individually cased bonus discs, again see Indy for example, and they are handled in like manner. 2) Not necessary. They are covered by the Rules "Create each of these individual profiles in line with the standard Contribution Rules." 3) Already touched on. see Indiana Jones 4) Again already discussed vaia 24 and i don't see that. If that is true, then why are the Rules NOT being followed. 5) It began skirt this issue when discussing it and runtime, which we have never included on ANY Profile.. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I suppose your one argument relative to casing should be looked at a bit closer. Indiana Jones was the first that I recall to introduce a separately cased bonus disc, save for some the "exclusive" discs which some stores deal with from time to time. This did present a conundrum as we don't as rule yet Profile bonus Discs, yet here was a Bonus Disc in it s own case and its own artwork to boot. The answer was determined by Indy long before we had Rules and just about the time I was beginning to explore the concept of rules. Since Indy was a unique at that time (2003) followed by Star Wars trilogy (2004), again save for the "exclusives (which aren't all that common ether), it wasn't high on the radar. By the time the Rules were released in 2005 there were TWO, count then TWO titles with such an unusual configuration out of a couple of hundred thousand titles at the time, not exactly significant. Five years ;later such Bonus discs are still relatively unusual, what do we get right now maybe 3 or 4 such setups per year. So I still don't see it is a great big deal, and hopefully one day maybe soon we will be able to create some form of detailed profile for all Bonus Discs, and when i say detailed I mean detailed. I have a concept in my mind, but there are several ways to do it, so its up to Ken to implement if and when. In the meantime we still will deal with these rather unusual configurations in a way which is consistent with their individual packaging and Cover art, without starting a mad dash to start Profiling EVERY Bonus Disc before the program is really ready for them. Even the individual packaging and art does not really change anything, Nadja, the resulting profiles remain very sketchy in terms of what the disc cotains.
Which brings me back to my first response to you.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Nadja: Quote:
It states quite clearly in the TV child profile rules, Create each of these individual profiles in line with the standard Contribution Rules. And then goes on to state that the only exception is with cover images, although those have been discussed to clarity by now. There's just no other interpretation. You are correct, that is what the rules say. Under standard Contribution Rules, we do not profile the bonus disc. As I said, and you have yet to address, the only place the rules talk about profiling bonus discs is in the Box Set portion of the rules. In that section it says: If a Box Set contains discs of Bonus Material for individual films, do not create separate profiles for these discs. Add the information to the individual film’s profile as normal for a single film 2-Disc set. If there is a disc of Bonus Material for all films included in the Box-set, create a separate profile for this disc. The part I bolded clearly indicates that the standard is to NOT create a profile for bonus discs. Since child profiles for TV sets are to use the standard rules, bonus discs can not be profiled. While I will not be as bold as you, and claim there is no other interpretation, I will say that your interpretation just doesn't make any sense to me. Quote:
I've made or downloaded child profiles for scores of TV sets by this point, and the only time I've come across one that doesn't have a separate profile for a features-only disc is when people HAVE profiled by packaging, such as having a thinpak with two discs occupying a single profile. Although these are generally separated out by various people and you don't really see it being done on new profiles. Just because you have made or downloaded child profiles for bonus discs doesn't mean they are allowed. I have seen numerous profiles for bootleg discs. Does that mean they are allowed as well? Of course not, it simply means they got approved. I should also point out that I use disc level profiles for my TV sets. Most I have created myself. Not once have I created a profile for the bonus discs. So, the fact that you have made some doesn't mean much. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Maybe I am missing something but, what does the 'Indiana Jones' bonus disc have to do with anything? It is a bonus disc that covers all three films in the set. As such, it is allowed by the Box Set rules.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Not much really Unicus, except to place the format both in time and relative to the Rules.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 775 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Standard Rules do not Profile Bonus discs, save for those oddities that have their own case. See Indy. This is a complete invention. Packaging does not dictate profiling, I cannot stress that enough. Quote:
I have checked bot the my own Profiles on 24 and the World Profiles in 24 and it appears that most of them, except for one that appears to originate in Brazil, follow the standarads. Season 1-3 Bonus Discs were simply part of the set and the Disc ID for the Bonus Disc is attacahed to the parent. What does the parent have to do with it? There is no issue with the parent, we are discussing disc-level profiling and only disc-level profilingQuote:
Just as with 98% of ALL Bonus Discs. SAeason 4 began the use of individually cased bonus discs, again see Indy for example, and they are handled in like manner. If you're talking about 24 in region 1, then all seasons with a features-only disc have a child profile for it, and have had since the Invelos DB was being populated. Know why? Packaging does not dicate profiling. Quote:
2) Not necessary. They are covered by the Rules
"Create each of these individual profiles in line with the standard Contribution Rules." Repeating what already did not answer the question still does not answer the question. Quote:
3) Already touched on. see Indiana Jones Do you have anything RELEVANT? Quote:
4) Again already discussed vaia 24 and i don't see that. If that is true, then why are the Rules NOT being followed. I asked you to quote which rule prohibits TV set bonus disc child profiles, you have failed to do so. Please rectify this situation. Quote:
5) It began skirt this issue when discussing it and runtime, which we have never included on ANY Profile.. No. No it didn't. The question was asked based on the fact that these profiles DO exist and how best to handle one aspect of them. Whether it's because I posted or because you just can't help yourself, but you couldn't stop yourself from turning this into some sort of contest. At some point you have to stop doing this. Anyway, I don't know if you really believe you have answered any of those questions, or whether you are deliberately dodging and employing FUD, but this a complete farce. If you wish to have another go, I'll be all too willing to give you the time of day. Until then, do by all means continue to "explore the concept of rules". Let me know when you discover them. I'll be over here talking with beings capable of logical discussion. | | | | Last edited: by Nadja |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Nadja: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Standard Rules do not Profile Bonus discs, save for those oddities that have their own case. See Indy.
[b]
This is a complete invention. Packaging does not dictate profiling, I cannot stress that enough.[/b]
Quote:
I have checked bot the my own Profiles on 24 and the World Profiles in 24 and it appears that most of them, except for one that appears to originate in Brazil, follow the standarads. Season 1-3 Bonus Discs were simply part of the set and the Disc ID for the Bonus Disc is attacahed to the parent.
What does the parent have to do with it? There is no issue with the parent, we are discussing disc-level profiling and only disc-level profiling
Quote:
Just as with 98% of ALL Bonus Discs. SAeason 4 began the use of individually cased bonus discs, again see Indy for example, and they are handled in like manner.
If you're talking about 24 in region 1, then all seasons with a features-only disc have a child profile for it, and have had since the Invelos DB was being populated. Know why? Packaging does not dicate profiling.
Quote:
2) Not necessary. They are covered by the Rules
"Create each of these individual profiles in line with the standard Contribution Rules."
Repeating what already did not answer the question still does not answer the question.
Quote:
3) Already touched on. see Indiana Jones
Do you have anything RELEVANT?
Quote:
4) Again already discussed vaia 24 and i don't see that. If that is true, then why are the Rules NOT being followed.
I asked you to quote which rule prohibits TV set bonus disc child profiles, you have failed to do so. Please rectify this situation.
Quote:
5) It began skirt this issue when discussing it and runtime, which we have never included on ANY Profile..
No. No it didn't. The question was asked based on the fact that these profiles DO exist and how best to handle one aspect of them. Whether it's because I posted or because you just can't help yourself, but you couldn't stop yourself from turning this into some sort of contest. At some point you have to stop doing this.
Anyway, I don't know if you really believe you have answered any of those questions, or whether you are deliberately dodging and employing FUD, but this a complete farce. If you wish to have another go, I'll be all too willing to give you the time of day. Until then, do by all means continue to "explore the concept of rules". Let me know when you discover them. I'll be over here talking with beings capable of logical discussion. Ok Nadja, i tried to talk but you are reverting to form, your usual insulting self. Just demonstrates that are some users taht cannot engage in a discussion. I suppose that I should have learned this lesson long ago, but it is disappointing. .I believe both Unicus and myself have adequately covered this in great detail. Ther bottom line is that if you are entering Bonus Discs that are not individually cased on their own, then you are ignoring the Rules. And should i find any such entries I will have thenm removed. Your first point. Unicus and i have both explained this and documented it for you. You THINK you now the answer and you clearly do not. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 775 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
You are correct, that is what the rules say. Under standard Contribution Rules, we do not profile the bonus disc. As I said, and you have yet to address, the only place the rules talk about profiling bonus discs is in the Box Set portion of the rules. But you're looking at a TV set as a whole, which is not what we process at disc level. At the parent level a season set is a whole entity, and bonus features are incorporated into the profile as with a single multi-disc movie release. At disc level, we treat each disc of episodes as a "main feature" all of its own. Each child profile pertains ONLY to that disc; the running time is accumulated from those episode, the production year only applies to those episodes (even if other discs are from the next/previous year), and bonus features on that disc go only in that profile, therefore it's treated exactly the same as an individual movie. A bonus disc of materials will most likely apply to the season as a whole, and thus all the other "main feature" discs, matching perfectly with the template for a multi-movie box set with bonus disc, such as the Indiana Jones example Skip attempted to shoehorn in. To claim otherwise makes absolutely no sense; the way you're describing it does not fit into any of the standard rules. Take one of the LOTR:EE sets, for example, or the extended PJ King Kong. These sets have the movie over the first two discs, and then extras on third (and fourth). There is no way that there would be a child profile for each half of the movie, with no child for the bonus discs, it is all kept in a parent and that is that. Quite right, and well-established. But if that is standard rules behaviour, which I'm sure we'll agree it is, then that's the same template that has to be applied to the TV set releases; one main feature over multiple discs, plus bonus disc(s). If you're going to split the "main feature" of a TV set up, that is only valid if each part of the main feature is, at disc level, considered to be a main feature of its own. Otherwise it would be the same as a chlid profile for half of a LOTR:EE movie, in this example. The fact that TV sets DO split up the episodes into child profiles means that you're not looking at the same situation as a multi-disc set for a single movie. Therefore it can ONLY match multi-movie box set standard rules, and thus allow child profiles for the bonus discs. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 775 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Ok Nadja, i tried to talk but you are reverting to form, your usual insulting self. Just demonstrates that are some users taht cannot engage in a discussion. I suppose that I should have learned this lesson long ago, but it is disappointing.
.I believe both Unicus and myself have adequately covered this in great detail.
Ther bottom line is that if you are entering Bonus Discs that are not individually cased on their own, then you are ignoring the Rules. And should i find any such entries I will have thenm removed.
Your first point. Unicus and i have both explained this and documented it for you. You THINK you now the answer and you clearly do not.
Skip Let's not pretend that you and Unicus are doing the same thing in this thread. You may end up at the same point, but Unicus is there because of logic and reasonable interpretation, not because he's inventing things about packaging and whatnot. I may not agree with it, but I can respect his process. This is, in no small part, because he has one. That's what makes it a discussion instead of a pot shoot. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Let's not pretend that you have any idea what you are talking about, though I will grant you the 24 Bonus Discs since they involve te whole set.
I should have know better than to try and engage you in a rational discussion. My logic is precisely the same as Unicus'. Not my fault you don't get that.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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