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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
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What needs to be done is a list of "acceptable" alternatives for "Songwriter" needs to be sent to Ken to add to the "Credited As" column. He has been pretty flexible in this area of late.
It will never be exhaustive, and then we will have to "keep it local".
And where does that leave non-English credits? All local...? Are we going to have to have this discussion....AGAIN?  Quoting the Rules: Quote:
If someone is not credited with one of these roles (or direct translations of these roles), do not include them in the Crew section. Bold by me. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 20,111 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
So, you would agree that a credit worded "written an directed by" should not be considered for any contributable crew entry. Don't forget films with credits which only say "A film by..." There's not even an actual Director credit in those very often.  | | | | Corey |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
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We would need more acceptable alternatives for every role in the table. The lack in the "song writer" row is just more obvious than in other rows. But we could allow to also regard the function of a credited role instead of only look at the label.
I agree. If you are a member of the Contribution Rules forum, you might want to start a thread for each one that you would like to make suggestions on. Since I don't believe that it's possible to add all of them which are missing, I'd rather advocate a rule change which trumps role function over label.  |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
What needs to be done is a list of "acceptable" alternatives for "Songwriter" needs to be sent to Ken to add to the "Credited As" column. He has been pretty flexible in this area of late.
It will never be exhaustive, and then we will have to "keep it local".
And where does that leave non-English credits? All local...? Not when they are a direct translation of the listed English roles. But are they usually a direct translation? Not in my experience! |
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| Registered: May 9, 2007 |  Posts: 1,536 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quote:
Quoting GSyren:
Not when they are a direct translation of the listed English roles. But are they usually a direct translation? Not in my experience! If you look at contributions in other regions, than you can see that the use of translations actually allows more flexibilty... The same should be applied for grammatical equivalents, such as the use of plural, or "writer" vs. "written by" etcetera. For Lyricist vs. Songwriter we need Ken's approval, but "Songwriter" and "Song Writer" is all one to most of us, I am sure. Using custom roles for such variations (or credited as) only diminishes the value of what we share. We should reserve that for roles that have not been defined at all (Musical Director, Choreographer and such, although I haven't checked these lately). | | | | Hans |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Staid S Barr: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Not when they are a direct translation of the listed English roles. But are they usually a direct translation? Not in my experience!
If you look at contributions in other regions, than you can see that the use of translations actually allows more flexibilty...
The same should be applied for grammatical equivalents, such as the use of plural, or "writer" vs. "written by" etcetera. The rules only allow direct translations and do not talk about grammatical equivalents. Unfortunately they do not talk about functional equivalents either. This is what I would prefer. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
The rules only allow direct translations and do not talk about grammatical equivalents. Unfortunately they do not talk about functional equivalents either. This is what I would prefer. This would be a nightmare. Your functional equivalents will not match someone else's and we wind up with totally useless data. Ken was very wise to word the Rules the way he did!  | | | | Hal |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,684 |
| | Posted: | | | | So, what is a direct translation? It's a functional equivalent in another language. So you'd allow functional equivalents in other languages, but not in your own...?  | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
So, what is a direct translation?
That's up to you to decide, not me. I would not say that direct translation = functional equivalent, but since it doesn't matter to me, I will stay out of that discussion. | | | | Hal |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting GSyren:
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So, what is a direct translation?
That's up to you to decide, not me. I would not say that direct translation = functional equivalent, but since it doesn't matter to me, I will stay out of that discussion. But if you had to, how would you define it? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Ken was very wise to word the Rules the way he did! You still think it was wise to not allow even slight variations of role names? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
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Ken was very wise to word the Rules the way he did!
You still think it was wise to not allow even slight variations of role names? Absolutely! If you want a variation added to the "Credited As" list, submit it to Ken for consideration. | | | | Hal |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
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Ken was very wise to word the Rules the way he did!
You still think it was wise to not allow even slight variations of role names?
Absolutely! If you want a variation added to the "Credited As" list, submit it to Ken for consideration. Your reaction to "written and directed by" has been different as far as I remember. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
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Ken was very wise to word the Rules the way he did!
You still think it was wise to not allow even slight variations of role names?
Absolutely! If you want a variation added to the "Credited As" list, submit it to Ken for consideration.
Your reaction to "written and directed by" has been different as far as I remember. If you cannot figure out that "Written and Directed By:" is a compound credit consisting of : Written By and Directed By and that it is nothing like trying to say that "Lyricist = Songwriter" then any further discussion with you is a complete waste of time because you are not being intellectually honest. | | | | Hal |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
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Ken was very wise to word the Rules the way he did!
You still think it was wise to not allow even slight variations of role names?
Absolutely! If you want a variation added to the "Credited As" list, submit it to Ken for consideration.
Your reaction to "written and directed by" has been different as far as I remember. That would be like saying we can't record the following credit: "Screenplay by John Doe and Jane Buck" Or should 'John Doe and Jane Buck' all go in the first name field? I know you're not going there, are you? | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
If you cannot figure out that "Written and Directed By:" is a compound credit consisting of :
Written By
and
Directed By
and that it is nothing like trying to say that "Lyricist = Songwriter" then any further discussion with you is a complete waste of time because you are not being intellectually honest. "written and directed by" is of course a compound credit and is completely different from "lyricist". But both are not listed in the crew table and therefore not allowed, if you follow the rules strictly. And you have explicitly confirmed the following to my question "You still think it was wise to not allow even slight variations of role names?": Quote:
Absolutely! If you want a variation added to the "Credited As" list, submit it to Ken for consideration. "written and directed by" is a variation of "written by" and "directed by". | | | | Last edited: by RHo |
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