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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Vote on Hong Kong/Asian movie actor 'community' name! |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting myself:
Quote:
Parse the name into the three pieces which match the given fields (first name, middle name, last name). Use the credited as field if necessary.
Applying the above to this case, I would say, depending on the actual credit found, one of the following variants should be used:
Yun-Fat//Chow
Yun-Fat//Chow [Yun Fat Chow]
Yun-Fat//Chow [Chow Yun-Fat]
Yun-Fat//Chow [Chow Yun Fat] As you should know, this has been suggested in the past. Some people agreed, some people didn't. Until we get some kind of ruling from Ken, I will continue to enter the name exactly as I see it. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: November 24, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,289 |
| | Posted: | | | | I seriously hope we can get an official rule on this, because there is quite obviously never going to be an agreement otherwise!! People, please stop trying to telling me that the 'rules state the name should be entered as it appears on screen' or whatever. I know that! That was not supposed to be what this thread was about! Read the first post again!!  | | | | Last edited: by GreyHulk |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | . | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 868 |
| | Posted: | | | | and again a discussion on parsing, I think it'd be best if there was only one name field so people could just enter what's on screen, no discussion needed.
Of course i also see the difficulty with asian name linking, especially when you have to use the subs for the credits. I've seen many variantions on names where only one or 2 letters were different because of the translator in question.
Paul |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GreyHulk: Quote:
I seriously hope we can get an official rule on this, because there is quite obviously never going to be an agreement otherwise!! People, please stop trying to telling me that the 'rules state the name should be entered as it appears on screen' or whatever. I know that! That was not supposed to be what this thread was about! Read the first post again!! Well, I don't know about the others, but my reply was based on what seems best to me, not just on the rules. It might well be that it's just what the rules say to do, but that would be a coincidence  To be clear, I don't think that we can have a "democratic" decision on each and every Chinese actor in the database. That would be impractical. Besides, most users don't even read the forums. Neither can we reverse all Chinese names, because the "reverse" rule wouldn't always work. The only alternative I can think of is, if you really wanted to, you could somehow document that Chow is his family name and thus reverse the name on the grounds that Family Name equals Last Name. But that would open a huge can of worms, and contributing each Chinese name would become a really hard work. Do we really want that? While I understand the concerns of those who want the reversed order, my advice is that we stick to the name order we see in the credits on screen. That might seem not "correct" in some respects, but I think we need to "compromise", so to speak, in order to make the system work. After all, we are after the credits, not the genealogy. Like I said, I also would like a check box in the program, so that if you wish to reverse the display order of Chinese names you can do it, as an option. | | | | -- Enry | | | | Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 302 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Don't you know that Chow is his last name?
Problem is, how would you know that
"Chow Yun-Fat" stands for Yun-Fat // Chow
but
"Anita Mui" stays Anita // Mui
? Somebody will know and will document it. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GreyHulk: Quote:
I seriously hope we can get an official rule on this, because there is quite obviously never going to be an agreement otherwise!! People, please stop trying to telling me that the 'rules state the name should be entered as it appears on screen' or whatever. I know that! That was not supposed to be what this thread was about! Read the first post again!! Grey: There is an OFFICIAL Rule on this, I assume you have read the Rules. Admit that the problem is not that there is not a Rules, it is a Rule you don't like. It was done for a reason and that is the Rule, what you want to do locally is your business. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: November 24, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,289 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
Quoting GreyHulk:
Quote:
I seriously hope we can get an official rule on this, because there is quite obviously never going to be an agreement otherwise!! People, please stop trying to telling me that the 'rules state the name should be entered as it appears on screen' or whatever. I know that! That was not supposed to be what this thread was about! Read the first post again!!
Grey:
There is an OFFICIAL Rule on this, I assume you have read the Rules. Admit that the problem is not that there is not a Rules, it is a Rule you don't like. It was done for a reason and that is the Rule, what you want to do locally is your business.
Skip This is the problem though. The official rule only states that we have to enter the actor as credited. And use the most common name if we can find it. This 'common' name changes all too often with certain actors. I was proposing a 'community' name. A 'universal' name so that all variations link back to the correct actor. This is something we don't have. |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
Don't you know that Chow is his last name?
Problem is, how would you know that
"Chow Yun-Fat" stands for Yun-Fat // Chow
but
"Anita Mui" stays Anita // Mui
?
Somebody will know and will document it. Most won't.  | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 302 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GreyHulk: Quote:
Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
Quoting GreyHulk:
Quote:
I seriously hope we can get an official rule on this, because there is quite obviously never going to be an agreement otherwise!! People, please stop trying to telling me that the 'rules state the name should be entered as it appears on screen' or whatever. I know that! That was not supposed to be what this thread was about! Read the first post again!!
Grey:
There is an OFFICIAL Rule on this, I assume you have read the Rules. Admit that the problem is not that there is not a Rules, it is a Rule you don't like. It was done for a reason and that is the Rule, what you want to do locally is your business.
Skip
This is the problem though. The official rule only states that we have to enter the actor as credited. And use the most common name if we can find it. This 'common' name changes all too often with certain actors. I was proposing a 'community' name. A 'universal' name so that all variations link back to the correct actor. This is something we don't have. Grey: The Commonly Credited name is the name that is used for linking. I am sorry that you don't like it. But there is NO Community name, never has been. This is your invention, our system works, perhaps not ad you want but it does work. You haven't been around long enough to understand this, I notice. Your comment is simply a thinly veiled attempt to what you perceive as the correct way to do it, instead of the Profiler way. We do not do Community Names, the last time I looked we are dealing with tens of thousands of actors and crew memebrs for which we would have to establish "Community" names, I think my system is better than ken's but it is ken's system which we have, deal with it and work with the system. Stop trying to swim upstream. Skip Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have to agree with Skip here. At least until Ken changes his mind on this or adds another exception... we need to use the most commonly credited name. It is not up to us to just decide on a name and start using it no matter what the rules allows.
If you want to change things around here I would suggest asking for admittance to the Rules Committee Forum where you can try to get support for your idea and officially present it to Ken. Which then no matter what the community thinks the final decision will still be up to Ken. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 767 |
| | Posted: | | | | And the system works, if everyone adds good data to it. A lot of Asian titles are being corrupted by entering first and middle name as a double last name.
Check these with the CLT: Chow Gam Kong and Pang Yun Cheung. All are credited Chow//Gam Kong and Pang//Yun Cheung.
Their actual names are Gam/Kong/Chow and Yun/Cheung/Pang. Parsing can go two ways:
Gam/Kong/Chow [Chow Gam Kong] or Chow/Gam/Kong. Personally I prefer the first, but we all know how the CLT works (second option).
Not to discredit these contributions, because a lot of work obviously went into it, but a little more thought could have gone into it.
I have updated the names in my own collection just the way I want it. But I'm not contributing/updating anything until clearer rules are available. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
I have to agree with Skip here. At least until Ken changes his mind on this or adds another exception... we need to use the most commonly credited name. I agree! The CLT gives the impression that the most common form is "CHOW YUN-FAT" or some capitalisation variant of this. From this string we put the last name part into the last name field, the middle name part into the middle name field, and of course the first name part into the first name field, all after applying standard capitalisation rules. If needed we use the credited as field. Therefore we get "Yun-Fat//Chow [Chow Yun-Fat]" for those credits. Other credits may lead to: "Yun-Fat//Chow [Chow Yun Fat]" "Yun-Fat//Chow [Yun Fat Chow]" "Yun-Fat//Chow" |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | . | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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