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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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What title to use? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 1,380 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DJ Doena: Quote:
The title used on a website where the cover scan clearly indicates otherwise. And - correct me if I am wrong - but wasn't it just you that explained that the DVD itself is the only source for every information? And now you refer to a website just because it suits you? Just a FYI, the original cover of the movie:  But i think you two are looking way too deep in that one cover, since its an example of many. The movie is referred to in finnish sites as Armoton Maa. Its easier for me to talk about Armoton Maa, then to change the way i pronounce words for a few seconds and say Open Range. But thats all just convinience (i just recently spent 5-10 minutes explaning how "Command & Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath" is written so a store can check if they have it, heh.). Speaking a language that only has ~6million speakers worldwide you get used to the fact that the finnish manual/ingridients/whatever is not the first or the 10th language on the list, but you have to scroll down to get your information. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 844 |
| | Posted: | | | | All I want is for the rules to be followed and that we use whatever source is specifically permitted in the rules to get the title from. As the rule is written right now that is the front cover. I think you need to petition Ken or Gerri to modify the foreign film title clarification to specify what sources other than the front cover are permissible for identifying the legitimate title for a given locality: i.e. the film credits, elsewhere on the cover other than the front, an official poster, or even the film's official website (for the locality in question obviously).
Until we get a clear indication, this debate can go on forever. Practically of course, the people in these localities will contribute and vote how they think best and the screeners will approve or deny as they think best and whatever is discussed here will have very little impact on any of that, I should imagine. | | | | Last edited: by bob9000 |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | why do you want to over look this? Quote:
Foreign Films: The Original Title field will contain the original title for the main feature in the country of origin. i.e. A German DVD release for a film originally produced in the United States would have the German title in the Title field and the English title in the Original Title Field. That is more then sufficient enough. i.e. A DVD release from Finland for a film originally produced in the United States would have the Suomi; title in the Title field and the English title in the Original Title Field. | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting whispering: Quote:
Just a FYI, the original cover of the movie:
Hang on a minute - that's the front cover of the original release? Then what was the cover you showed us on the first page? If that truly is the front cover of the original release, then of course the title is Armoton Maa - but that's not the information you gave us. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 844 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote:
why do you want to over look this?
Quote:
Foreign Films: The Original Title field will contain the original title for the main feature in the country of origin. i.e. A German DVD release for a film originally produced in the United States would have the German title in the Title field and the English title in the Original Title Field.
That is more then sufficient enough.
i.e. A DVD release from Finland for a film originally produced in the United States would have the Suomi; title in the Title field and the English title in the Original Title Field. But none of that addresses WHERE to get the title from. That is the issue. |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 131 |
| | Posted: | | | | ... | | | | Last edited: by tarantino |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 131 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bob9000: Quote:
Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:
why do you want to over look this?
Quote:
Foreign Films: The Original Title field will contain the original title for the main feature in the country of origin. i.e. A German DVD release for a film originally produced in the United States would have the German title in the Title field and the English title in the Original Title Field.
That is more then sufficient enough.
i.e. A DVD release from Finland for a film originally produced in the United States would have the Suomi; title in the Title field and the English title in the Original Title Field.
But none of that addresses WHERE to get the title from. That is the issue. Exactly. I will petition to expand on the rules for the title. The front cover should be reworded to include the spin and the back cover as an secondary source when the front cover is not practical. It should also clarify that when possible, the title should be written in the primary language of the locality. (But just be careful here with arabic, chinese and japanese localities) But, eh, that's just my opinion.... I'm not one of the expert who writes the rules  |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote:
The rules allow for the use of foreign titles. Sorry, the "Foreign Film" paragraph is s under the Original Title section, not the Title field. Quote:
The users of that locality should use what is for them the most workable. They should be able, as we are, to recognise the DVD title in the program. A bit of common sense is always welcome. I agree with you, a bit of common sense is always welcome, and the Screeners DO have common sense, so I don't see a big problem here. Quote:
Nitpicking if the fornt cover should only be used is not common sense. It's not "nitpicking". If someone asks on the forum, they'll get an answer based on the Rules as they are written: the Title rule says to use the Front Cover. Maybe it's just because of poor wording, I don't know, but that's what is in the Rules as they are. Again, I am not saying that I would go and change a localized title for the sake of changing it, if the users in that Locality are happy with it. I am all for Common Sense, when possible. Quote:
The place for a foreign title is the title field, the orignal title field is for the orignal title.
[...] Again, the "Foreign Film" paragraph is under the Original Title section, not the Title field. If you ask for Common Sense, I am with you. But then, if you insist on saying it's written exactly so in the Rules, sorry I don't see it. You can't have the cake and eat it too.  Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote:
due to local situation (4 different countries) there are compromises made. Again, I understand that. Others already said it. Let me quote bob9000 on this: Quote:
Practically of course, the people in these localities will contribute and vote how they think best and the screeners will approve or deny as they think best and whatever is discussed here will have very little impact on any of that, I should imagine.
Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote:
It is not up to us, users from other localities to dictate how they should deal with that situation. Agree. But if someones makes a poll, they are asking for the opinions of all the users, including those from other localities. [Whispering, I am not criticizing your poll, I am just saying that people express their opinions on the issue because they have been asked to, not because they want to dictate anything to your Locality.  ] Quote:
As the rules allow the use of foreign titles and the source is the dvd cover... Sorry, it seems to me that you are taking that sentence out of context. The Foreign Titles paragraph is under the section on Original Titles, a different field from the Title field. For the Title field, we are told to use the Front Cover. I don't know if it's just poor wording, or if the rule itself is "right" or "wrong", I just know that's what I read there. Quote:
So insisting not to use these titles as those are not on the front cover is not very helpfull for the users of this locality.
Well, they will contribute as they want and I am not going to criticize anyone. But here we are discussing what the rules say. Apart from the rules, I see pros and cons either way. The Localized title is easier for those who are familiar with it. But if you look for the actual title on the front cover, assuming that's the title in the profile, as usual, you won't find it in the db. Besides, if some users in the same Locality enter the title on the front cover and others enter the title on the back cover, the data will not be consistent, and there might even be ping-pongs. Quote:
The cover clearly indicates what its use is: each country has it's own section on that cover: as indicated at the front of this cover.
# Denmark
# Sweden
# Norway
# Finland
I must confess I am not entirely clear on their meaning. However, other DVDs might not have such sections on the front cover. What would you do, if the sections were not there? Should users check each and every back cover before contributing the title from the front cover, because on the back cover there might be a localized title? My bottom line: let's be practical. I am fine with using Common sense in specific situations, but wouldn't be comfortable with introducing too many exceptions to the general rule "Use the Title from the From Cover". | | | | -- Enry | | | | Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,380 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Hang on a minute - that's the front cover of the original release? Then what was the cover you showed us on the first page?
If that truly is the front cover of the original release, then of course the title is Armoton Maa - but that's not the information you gave us. Should have worded that better, the first release (which i dont have) was released as Armoton Maa on front cover. The one i have is a "budjet DVD" released later by the title Open Range on front cover (also diffrent UPC and all that). |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting whispering: [...] Quote:
The one i have is a "budjet DVD" released later by the title Open Range on front cover (also diffrent UPC and all that). Then they are different profiles by all means. | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
Sorry, the "Foreign Film" paragraph is s under the Original Title section, not the Title field. Don't feel sorry. It tells you what to do with a DVD for another locality. Don't make it more difficult as it is. The users of this locality will be looking for this local title. And they will not find as you insist it should be English. Your only seeing this from your perspective. this title will neither be off any use to you: Âëàñòåëèí êîëåö: Äâå êðåïîñòè | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. | | | | Last edited: by ? |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 3,830 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
Then they are different profiles by all means. Still that cover tells you for that DVD profile the title is in: Sweden: Open Range Danmark: Open Range Suomi: Armoton Maa Norway: Open Range | | | | Sources for one or more of the changes and/or additions were not submitted. Please include the sources for your changes in the contribution notes, especially for cast and crew additions. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bob9000: Quote:
Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:
why do you want to over look this?
Quote:
Foreign Films: The Original Title field will contain the original title for the main feature in the country of origin. i.e. A German DVD release for a film originally produced in the United States would have the German title in the Title field and the English title in the Original Title Field.
That is more then sufficient enough.
i.e. A DVD release from Finland for a film originally produced in the United States would have the Suomi; title in the Title field and the English title in the Original Title Field.
But none of that addresses WHERE to get the title from. That is the issue. You are correct. If we take one single rule, out of context, it doesn't address where to get the 'localized title'. If, on the other hand, we take the rules as a whole, they tell you exactly where to get that title. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,745 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
You are correct. If we take one single rule, out of context, it doesn't address where to get the 'localized title'.
If, on the other hand, we take the rules as a whole, they tell you exactly where to get that title. From the front cover? | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
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| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
Quoting Giga Wizard:
Quote:
The rules allow for the use of foreign titles.
Sorry, the "Foreign Film" paragraph is s under the Original Title section, not the Title field. So what? How does the location of the rule change what it says? It is very specific as to what goes in each field. To ignore what it says, simply because it is in a different section, is ludicrous. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DJ Doena: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
You are correct. If we take one single rule, out of context, it doesn't address where to get the 'localized title'.
If, on the other hand, we take the rules as a whole, they tell you exactly where to get that title.
From the front cover? Nice try, but no...here is a hint: The authoritative source for information submitted should be the DVD itself. Please don't submit content from a third party database, and always verify the specifications printed on the cover. In both cases, errors abound, so always verify the information directly from the DVD whenever possible. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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