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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DarklyNoon: Quote:
Well, I am of course not speaking for every non-american here, but if you watch the news and listen to what politicians here in Europe are saying, you know that Europe is tired to support America in their stupid wars.
War is always the wrong way, War is NEVER a solution (believe me, we germans learned that), if you do not get that, you've lost every piece of humanity.
War takes so many innocent lifes.
But ah well, politics should probably not be discussed over the internet, I will go back to what i like here, contribute profiles and talk about the DVD Profiler.
Sorry if I offended someone, but that was my opinion and I am proud of being anti-Bush and anti-War.
cheers
Donnie Such naiveté. Thank God there are responsible people with a realistic understanding of the fact that there are "bullies" in the world commiting atrocities who know no other way except force. Your solution: let's just sit down and talk through our differences. Try studying history. You'll find out how well that works in many situations. Being German, you should understand that. I rue the day if your ilk is ever running things.  | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Darkly:
No one wants war, but Freedom comes at a very high price, and sometimes it is necessary. There is a major war coming I am sad to say, my guess is the 2015-2020 time frame, at the moment our leaders appear to be ignoring this, and allowing the opposition tyo set the time frame.<shrugs> But i agree with what Hal said.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well sorry,
I disagree,
the war in Iraq solved nothing. Saddam did NOT have any weapons of mass destruction and he also had nothing to do with Al Quaida, in fact, he even hated Osama Bin Laden and never worked with him, so what was the reason to start a war there ?
I can answer that question myself, the reason was OIL, and the reason was not to free the Iraq people from an insane dictator.
if you look at Iraq nowadays, it is definitely not safer and nicer for the people to live there.
This war managed nothing, except for America having control over Iraqs massive oil pipelines.
Please do not be so naive that Bush started the war to help the people there.
cheers
Donnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 670 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DarklyNoon: Quote:
(fyi, the USA has lost all wars they started). Does that include the civil war?  | | | | The future is here. It's just not widely distributed yet. (William Gibson) |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,745 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rander: Quote:
Quoting DarklyNoon:
Quote:
(fyi, the USA has lost all wars they started).
Does that include the civil war? Why not, AFAIK the war started officially by shooting at Fort Sumter and it was the Confederates who did it. And who's lost the war? The Confederates, when Lee surrendered in some Courthouse. | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
 | | | | Last edited: by DJ Doena |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DarklyNoon: Quote:
Well sorry,
I disagree,
the war in Iraq solved nothing. Saddam did NOT have any weapons of mass destruction and he also had nothing to do with Al Quaida, in fact, he even hated Osama Bin Laden and never worked with him, so what was the reason to start a war there ?
I can answer that question myself, the reason was OIL, and the reason was not to free the Iraq people from an insane dictator.
if you look at Iraq nowadays, it is definitely not safer and nicer for the people to live there.
This war managed nothing, except for America having control over Iraqs massive oil pipelines.
Please do not be so naive that Bush started the war to help the people there.
cheers
Donnie You really are clueless. If the war in Iraq was about "oil", please explain why the U.S. gets exactly zero of it's oil from Iraq? Why did we not take over the oil fields there and take what we wanted? Not one drop! 80% of our imported oil comes from Canada, Mexico and Venezuela. You are drinking the media Kool-Aid in a big way! | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,745 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Thank God there are responsible people with a realistic understanding of the fact that there are "bullies" in the world commiting atrocities who know no other way except force. And who installed these "bullies"? Who moved Pinochet into power? Who gave Saddam his weapons in the first place? Who couldn't care less when he used them against the Iranians? I like americans in general, they make great movies and TV shows, but I am not naive enough to think that the american foreign policy (or my own for that matter) has the best interest of foreigners at heart. And I don't think that any of the 600,000 - 1,000,000 dead Iraqis (2003-2008) is very grateful for his/her "freedom". | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
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| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 2,692 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Lord Of The Sith: Quote:
First of all Paul I want to thank you for all of the red arrows it simply proves you are the type of person I thought you were. . I don't know if you were saying I had given you red arrows but I hadn't. | | | | Paul |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DarklyNoon: Quote:
Well sorry,
I disagree,
the war in Iraq solved nothing. Saddam did NOT have any weapons of mass destruction and he also had nothing to do with Al Quaida, in fact, he even hated Osama Bin Laden and never worked with him, so what was the reason to start a war there ?
I can answer that question myself, the reason was OIL, and the reason was not to free the Iraq people from an insane dictator.
if you look at Iraq nowadays, it is definitely not safer and nicer for the people to live there.
This war managed nothing, except for America having control over Iraqs massive oil pipelines.
Please do not be so naive that Bush started the war to help the people there.
cheers
Donnie Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DJ Doena: Quote:
Quoting Rander:
Quote:
Quoting DarklyNoon:
Quote:
(fyi, the USA has lost all wars they started).
Does that include the civil war?
Why not, AFAIK the war started officially by shooting at Fort Sumter and it was the Confederates who did it. And who's lost the war? The Confederates, when Lee surrendered in some Courthouse. That would be Appomattox Courthouse. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Think I missed something, it's American-Bashing now?  Don't think that's better than European-Bashing! Could we all please take a stop now and THINK for just a second. It's highly likely that noone on this forum is responsible for anything that went wrong in the world (at least not in major scales). So where's the reason to bullie around here? If pressed into the defense anyone will get agressive. In the final result it will help noone, except that it spoils the climate of this forum. So at everyone (including myself): Before you start spreading "historical truths" get better informed about where the truth really might be. And before you start verbally attacking inhabitants of a country who's patriotism is proverbial, prepare for the answers that will come up. You will seldom see an American who will speak against actions taken by his country, in the presence of people from foreign countries, and that's not because he necessarily supports the positions taken, but simply because he thinks of this as being unpatriotic. And this is definitely unheard of for an American. Come to that, the same goes for people from France, Great Britain and several other countries. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
| | Registered: March 24, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,044 |
| | Posted: | | | | Just remember, "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it." Rory  | | | DVD Profiler for iOS as of 3/5/2013
DVD Profiler for Android as of 5/17/2013 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DJ Doena: Quote:
I like americans in general, they make great movies and TV shows, but I am not naive enough to think that the american foreign policy (or my own for that matter) has the best interest of foreigners at heart.
U.S. foreign policy is only about one thing. What is best for the U.S. As well it should be! | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,745 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
U.S. foreign policy is only about one thing. What is best for the U.S.
As well it should be! Of course it is. And I can fully understand that POV. But then please stop to pretend it were anything else. You don't care whether the Iraq ever becomes a democracy as long as it doesn't pose any threat to you. That's the reason Saddam was never a problem as long as he fought the Iranians. Or as Harry S. Truman has allegedly put it: "He may be a bastard, but at least he's our bastard." | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
|
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DJ Doena: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Thank God there are responsible people with a realistic understanding of the fact that there are "bullies" in the world commiting atrocities who know no other way except force.
And who installed these "bullies"? Who moved Pinochet into power? Who gave Saddam his weapons in the first place? Who couldn't care less when he used them against the Iranians?
I like americans in general, they make great movies and TV shows, but I am not naive enough to think that the american foreign policy (or my own for that matter) has the best interest of foreigners at heart.
And I don't think that any of the 600,000 - 1,000,000 dead Iraqis (2003-2008) is very grateful for his/her "freedom". Thx for supporting my point of view  To skipnet and HAL, it is really funny that you believe what CNN is telling you. But honestly , let us stop this now, we disagree on politics, but we share the love for tv, movies and DVD profiler. This will be my last post on this matter. A flaming war is not needed cheers Donnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com | | | | Last edited: by DarklyNoon |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Posts: 262 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have to add at least a quick comment or two. Donnie - your notion that war never solved anything is brutally naive and dangerous -- as I've heard others say -- WAR solved HITLER (side note - it also solved Imperial Japan which also brutally murdered several million Chinese and others). If other nations hadn't gone to war with Hitler -- most notably the US -- he would have brutally murdered even more Jews and others than he did.
I agree war is a terrible thing but it is sometimes the solution to serious threats to freedom. I respect your right to disagree about Iraq (i.e. whether it was necessary etc.) but let's not get carried away.
No country is perfect and the US has been involved in supporting and propping up some nefarious characters over the years. These matters are hard to evaluate but often they can be traced to what we thought was best for us at the time (and/or what was best for the world). I agree that our foreign policy is often motivated by what's best for us but so is the policy of all nations. I do think the US deserves some credit for all of the good things we've done for the world both in the past and in the present.
The notion that the Iraqi people were better off under Saddam is a bit nutty in my estimation - yes the number of deaths in the war over the past 5 years is significant but it's not anywhere near 1 million as you suggest. More importantly the vast majority of Iraqis killed were killed by the terrorists who are violently trying to prevent a democracy from emerging there. It's not fair to blame us for the violent and destructive actions of thugs and murderers. They are to blame for their actions and them alone.
Brian |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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