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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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What does Invelos want? |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 5,917 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't think the vast majority of users will perform a manual link of cast & crew. I predict that there will be three groups here too: 1. Won't link anything. 2. Will link only their favorite stars. 3. MUST ... LINK ... EVERYTHING The more I think of it, the more I like the IMDB method of linking people together and I can only see good coming from it baring a patent on the method. NOTE: The programmer in me is gooshing forth below, non programmers feel free to pass.  The only real issue with this method is how to link people together. First, I would probably create an entry in a database table for each and every unique name & BY. Loop over it and gather a count of each name variant based on the Credited As linkage already in place and determine the high count - then create a row in a different table (which will be the master name's table) to list the name with the highest count and link to the DBID of each alias. When cast & crew are added to a profile, the ID of the name record (as credited) is assigned. When viewing the profile, if there is a link to multiple ID's for that name, the established common name is displayed with the Credited As name in brackets. For new names of cast & crew, there won't be any linking established. If they want to link it to another established common name, we could have a voting system in place like we do with profiles - they submit the linking along with documentation and everyone has the option of voting on it. If declined, no linking will take place. If accepted, it will be linked with the common name record as an alias and the master profile updated to reflect this. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | My proposal for linking was Quote:
Invelos keeps an cast/crew data by unique id: actor001, actor002, etc
Users can link these online actors to their local actors (that can be parsed and sorted locally) by unique id: actor001 = local003, etc
Users upload cast "as credited" name linked to master cast/crew data:
moviecast001 = actor005, etc | | | | My Home Theater | | | | Last edited: by xradman |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
And, more on topic, simple linking does not solve the problem where "Tom Smith" can really mean one of several actors. Although it does allow linking of disparate credited names as the current system allows, it would also result in links where none should exist.
However, reverting to a simple "as credited" for the online database, and allowing the linking to be local is something we are considering. At the moment, I would lean towards the current system, which allows one user to contribute links for others to benefit from, a philosophy which after all is the heart and soul of DVD Profiler.
No linking system can be "perfect", but personally, I'd much rather deal with the rare occasion that you describe than the mess that we currently have. If you decide to go local with this, I sure hope it's a "simple linking" solution. I personally agree with Hal on this one. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting synner_man: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I am sorry, but that is all conjecture, assumption and personal opinion. I hardly think that Ken would consider reverting to a simple "as credited" for the online database if any of that were true. 
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
However, reverting to a simple "as credited" for the online database, and allowing the linking to be local is something we are considering. At the moment, I would lean towards the current system, which allows one user to contribute links for others to benefit from, a philosophy which after all is the heart and soul of DVD Profiler.
He said they are considering it, but also suggest above the ability to simply strip the common names away for those people who only want As Credited. I understand that but, does anybody really think he would be considering either choice if the majority of users wanted linking as bad as T!M suggests? I give Ken a lot more credit than that. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,736 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
At the moment, I would lean towards the current system, which allows one user to contribute links for others to benefit from, a philosophy which after all is the heart and soul of DVD Profiler. Indeed!  Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
Another alternative would be to allow each user to set their local program copy to download the credits "as credited", removing the extra linking data at the time of download. That would be fine, of course. I honestly don't believe there are more than a few staunch "group three" users who would ever use it (really: if you KNOW two name variants refer to the same person, why would you choose to strip away the link between them?), but they're so vocal about it that just from that point of view it might be worth implementing...  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 17,334 |
| | Posted: | | | | I was wondering why anyone would want to strip off the linking at all? I consider myself pretty close to a "group three" user... but that has nothing to do with wanting the names to not link. I would think that most everyone wants the name variants to link.
I just don't think the current way is working well enough... and would think that as Hal suggested would be a better solution to what we have now. Even with the few obvious problems it has. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr. Killpatient: Quote:
I don't think the vast majority of users will perform a manual link of cast & crew. I predict that there will be three groups here too:
1. Won't link anything.
2. Will link only their favorite stars.
3. MUST ... LINK ... EVERYTHING I think the vast majority of users will fall into group 1. Let's be honest, how many 'big name' actors use different name variations? Most of the linking I am seeing is for crew and most of that is for crew that the average user probably doesn't care about. I have a very hard time believing that the average user cares that John Doe is a Production Sound Mixer much less that he once used the name John J. Doe. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | I know that I'll only link a few as I notice them. I certainly wont link everyone & wont go looking for them to link. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Test results, a page or so late:
Gold 15
Orange 9
Blue 6
Green 6 | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 6,745 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
you might as well just mine your cast and crew for IMDb, lock your database, and live happily ever after. In fact: that's exactly what almost everyone did back when we were supposed to enter everything "as credited", and to this day a number of people still do it that way because it's quick and easy. (And the IMDb database is also improving with every day and gets more and more "as credited" but with an already working link system) | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
 | | | | Last edited: by DJ Doena |
| | W0m6at | | You're in for it now Tony |
| Registered: April 17, 2007 |  Posts: 1,091 |
| | Posted: | | | | I would hate to lose linking coming down from the online. For voice-actors, there are some cast who have completely unrelated names that unless you actively search, you're not going to link. In some cases these are among the most active people in my db (and ironically I rarely listen to the English dubs). Even outside of that, I am often curious to find that someone in a movie I've just added has already appeared in something I own. Particularly for Asian movies, name order and romanization can both be different. Add to that hyphenation, inclusion/exclusion of certain name parts and occasionally parsing differences and you've quite an issue to tackle solo.
If the *option* to turn off linking/common names is implemented, I feel it really should be an opt-IN rather than an opt-OUT (i.e. Business-as-usual by default from an end-user perspective). | | | | Adelaide Movie Buffs (info on special screenings, contests, bargains, etc. relevant to Adelaideans... and contests/bargains for other Aussies too!) |
| | Registered: December 22, 2008 |  Posts: 76 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr. Killpatient: Quote:
I don't think the vast majority of users will perform a manual link of cast & crew. I predict that there will be three groups here too:
1. Won't link anything.
2. Will link only their favorite stars.
3. MUST ... LINK ... EVERYTHING
The more I think of it, the more I like the IMDB method of linking people together and I can only see good coming from it baring a patent on the method.
NOTE: The programmer in me is gooshing forth below, non programmers feel free to pass.
The only real issue with this method is how to link people together. First, I would probably create an entry in a database table for each and every unique name & BY. Loop over it and gather a count of each name variant based on the Credited As linkage already in place and determine the high count - then create a row in a different table (which will be the master name's table) to list the name with the highest count and link to the DBID of each alias.
When cast & crew are added to a profile, the ID of the name record (as credited) is assigned. When viewing the profile, if there is a link to multiple ID's for that name, the established common name is displayed with the Credited As name in brackets.
For new names of cast & crew, there won't be any linking established. If they want to link it to another established common name, we could have a voting system in place like we do with profiles - they submit the linking along with documentation and everyone has the option of voting on it. If declined, no linking will take place. If accepted, it will be linked with the common name record as an alias and the master profile updated to reflect this. I'm also a "programmer". I have my own company which developes software for 911 dispatch (Police/Fire/EMS) systems (billing, fleet management, patient tracking, vehicle tracking (satellite), ANI/ALI interfaces, and much much more). We have clients all over North America, and a few overseas. But I digress.... I can't really see how the IMDB name linking system would qualify for a software patent. However, all sorts of crap slips into the patent office.  My point is, I have fairly sophisticated name linking algorithms that I've developed to track patients transported by EMS/Ambulance. And accuracy is job #1, as my clients use this information for billing. You'd think most EMS systems would track this by using the patients SSN, Health Insurance number, or something else. But many times all they have is a "name".  Judging by the level of complexity already in DVDProfiler (I'm very impressed Ken!), I don't think it would be a problem for Ken to develop a BETTER linking system than IMDB has, easily. But, with all software projects, time is the enemy. Poo |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting I-Fling-Poo: Quote:
But, with all software projects, time is the enemy.
Poo Well, this program has been going on for almost 10 years...  | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,917 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DJ Doena: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
you might as well just mine your cast and crew for IMDb, lock your database, and live happily ever after. In fact: that's exactly what almost everyone did back when we were supposed to enter everything "as credited", and to this day a number of people still do it that way because it's quick and easy.
(And the IMDb database is also improving with every day and gets more and more "as credited" but with an already working link system) Yeah, I've noriced, Karsten. I have also noticed that have a Rule explaining that they want the data to match the film credits....hmmmm, now I wonder where they might have gotten that idea from...but they dont' enforce it at all. BTW, while I see the simple association method as a primarily local issue, it still allows for us to share data. It also sets NO PRIORITY name of any kind, user-generated or otherwise, once the links are established it makes no difference which Name Variant you search on you will get the same list of movies or TV. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: December 22, 2008 | | Posts: 76 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
Quoting I-Fling-Poo:
Quote:
But, with all software projects, time is the enemy.
Poo
Well, this program has been going on for almost 10 years... Not sure what you mean by that, but I too have an application that is 12 years old that I'm still selling. Obviously it is continually evolving and looks nothing like it did 12 years ago, just like (I'm assuming) DVDProfiler. Users tend to submit all sorts of great ideas that I've never thought of, and want the feature in the application. And that is a GOOD thing! Who better to suggest features to your software product than the people who use it day in, day out? I love my users (no, really!). The trick is to sort through the plethora of feature requests, and weed out the ones that don't really make sense (ie: adds no appreciable value to all the OTHER users of the software). Poo |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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